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The veil turns women into things

The Islamic practice of forcing women to cover their body, face and hair has always disturbed me. Today, thanks once again to the Internet Infidels Newswire, I found an article from The Guardian that articulates exactly how I feel about the issue (emphasis mine):

The veil turns women into things. It was shocking to find on the streets of Kabul that invisible women behind burkas are not treated with special respect. On the contrary, they are pushed and shoved off pavements by men, jostled aside as if almost subhuman without the face-to-face contact that recognises common humanity.

Even as infants, we instinctively recognize other human beings by their faces, and we instinctively know that having a face is what separates people from things. This concept is ingrained in our psyche — what do vegetarians say when they mean to exclude living beings with rights from what they are willing to eat? “I won’t eat anything with a face.” To force a human being to hide their face is to deny them their identity as a person.

And what about the rest of the body? Why is it that women are required to cover their entire body while men are generally free to dress however they please? Some people say that this is because the Qur’an demands modesty. But then why should a woman’s body be any more indecent than a man’s? What is the justification for that?

A more sinister explanation is that women need to hide their bodies to protect themselves from men — that if a man even so much as catches a glimpse of a woman’s figure, he will become consumed with lust and be uncontrollably compelled to rape her. This line of reasoning conveniently absolves men of all sexual responsibility. In a society like this, the crime of rape officially does not exist, because they can always blame the woman for not being “modest” enough — obviously, she’s a brazen whore and she wanted it.

It seems clear to me that the way to improve the situation of women in Islamic societies is to restore their rightful status as human beings and to force men to take responsibility for their actions — because whether Muslims are willing to believe it or not, women are people too — and that is why the veil has to go.

Posted Monday, October 23rd, 2006
Tags: Fabio, Muslims, News

Comments to “The veil turns women into things”

Moataz says:
October 28th, 2006 at 2:11 pm

Hello there.

I am a Muslim and I think I can answer you.

But first, I want this to be a civilized discussion, not the “Muslims have to disappear” kind. OK?

First of all, there is difference between the veil (the Hijab) and the Niqab (the black thing that some Muslim women to cover all their body including the face and hands).

The veil is a piece of cloth that the woman uses to cover her hair and neck. That’s it! Islam orders its female followers to wear decent clothes that are; not tight, revealing or short. On top of that you add the veil which is an order by God for all females that have reached puberty.

You are going to ask now, what about men? Men are ordered to wear decent clothes that again are not tight, revealing or short (in addition to not being made of silk). The reason why women are ordered to wear the veil is not to avoid being raped or something. I really don’t know how you got that idea. Do you know what the penalty of rape in Islam is… death. Rape is the same as murder in Islam. Now back to the point. The veil makes the society treat them for what they are not for how they look or how sexy they are. It also protects them from the sex-obsessed men who will stare at her all the time. You will say, why not the opposite, why won’t females look at males? My answer is to read books about human sexuality. The things that are sexual stimulants for men are not so for women and vice versa.

Now to the Niqab. First, many Muslim clerics said that the niqab is not an Islamic obligation, in fact it’s not from Islam at all. Do you know that during the Hajj (The Great Pilgrim to Mecca) women shouldn’t cover their faces or hands and they shouldn’t wear black. And to your information, the Hajj is the highest form of worship in Islam. And you are right, the niqab turns women to things, but then again, so do tight and revealing clothes. Both are two faces of the same coin. Both are a form of extremism.

I do believe that women are human beings not just bare flesh or a Nazgul (If you have seen The Lord of the Rings!).

What angers me is that people tend to focus on the niqab (which is wrong) and forget about things like pornography and nudity in movies and so on, that use the nude female body for money. And this is also wrong. For the first (the niqab) Westerns will say “female oppression”, but in the other, they will say “personal freedom”.

You might say that in some countries like Afghanistan, the niqab is forced by men on women. But make no mistake, there is a difference between Islam and Muslims. Not everything that Muslims do nowadays is from Islam. For example terrorism is done by a small percentage of fanatical Muslims, not by Islam. It’s just that some Muslims misunderstood Islam, and they are to be blamed not Islam.

I am open for discussion!

Chicken Girl says:
October 29th, 2006 at 8:52 pm

Hello, Moataz.

I would have gotten back to you earlier, but as you might be able to surmise from my last couple of blog entries, I’ve been preoccupied with other things.

I don’t really want to get into a rant, so I’d just like to make a couple of points:

Firstly, I apologize for equivocating all veils with the niqab. My complaints about identity loss only apply to veils that cover the face. I’m not crazy about other veils either, but for a different reason: why should women cover their hair but not men? It seems to be your position that men don’t need to cover up because women don’t have a sex drive, or at least not one that responds to visual stimuli, but I’m going to have to correct you on that: yes, Virginia, women find men physically — yes, even visually — attractive. Ever seen the cover art on romance novels? Hair carries all of the same signals for men as it does for women: it shows that the bearer of the hair is healthy and well-fed. Most people appreciate those qualities in a potential sexual partner — instinctively even if they’re not aware of it. So, why doesn’t Fabio need to cover his hair? It’s a blatant double standard.

Secondly, you dismiss the idea that women need to cover their bodies to protect themselves from horny men, and yet:

The veil makes the society treat them for what they are not for how they look or how sexy they are. It also protects them from the sex-obsessed men who will stare at her all the time.

This is simply a thinly-veiled — pardon the pun — version of the exact same argument. This “sex-obsessed men” myth is demeaning to men as well as women: it implies that men have no control over their actions — and, therefore, are not responsible for them. It is not my responsibility to wear a tent so that men won’t stare at me. It is your responsibility to get a grip on yourself. Yes, you find women sexually attractive. It’s normal. It’s healthy. It doesn’t give you license to stare.

If “sex-obsessed men” are such a problem, then, in western society, where women are free to wear whatever they like, why are there not packs of lust-crazed men roaming the streets looking for women to ravish? Because in America, seeing a woman is not a big deal. When you stick all the women under their own personal tent and tell the men that they will surely be consumed with lust if they see one of them, you create the forbidden fruit effect: suddenly you get men who are liable to cream themselves if they see an ankle. This is not a healthy response. In fact, I would argue that the wearing of the veil turns women into sexual objects — it broadcasts the message that what’s underneath is so horribly provocative that it can’t be shown in public. It’s just hair, for god’s sake. It’s not as if we have vaginas on our heads.

I think it’s worth mentioning that if Muslim men were also required to cover their heads, my only response would be, “Huh. It’s silly, but at least it’s fair.” It’s the double standard that I object to.

Moataz says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:33 am

Hello ChickenGirl. Sorry for not replying for a whole month. I was busy. But anyway…

To answer your question: Why don’t men cover their hair? I will need to ask you another question.

You have a boyfriend, don’t you? Then answer this: suppose that you and your boyfriend were going together to an occasion, any formal occasion. What will both of you wear? You boyfriend will mostly wear a suit +/- a tie. Now, what are you going to wear? A suit? I guess not. You are going to wear something more [i]feminine[/i]. Am I right?

I don’t mean you personally, I just use [i]you[/i] to make it easier to imagine.

Waiting for your answer.

Moataz says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 9:35 am

Oh! I forgot to say that I am going to reply to all of you previous post, but not in one post. Let’s keep it short and simple, OK?

Chicken Girl says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:23 pm

To answer your question: Why don’t men cover their hair? I will need to ask you another question.

You have a boyfriend, don’t you? Then answer this: suppose that you and your boyfriend were going together to an occasion, any formal occasion. What will both of you wear? You boyfriend will mostly wear a suit +/- a tie. Now, what are you going to wear? A suit? I guess not. You are going to wear something more [i]feminine[/i]. Am I right?

So, your answer is “men don’t have to cover their hair because veils are for women”? Sorry, but that doesn’t even begin to address my point. Women have very much the same sexual drives as men. Fabio’s hair is just as attractive to a woman as a woman’s hair is to a man. So how is it that a woman’s hair is too unspeakably indecent to be seen in public, but Fabio’s is A-OK?

Why should it be that I have to wear a veil, but Fabio, whose hair is every bit as pretty as mine, doesn’t have to wear, say, a hat?

Moataz says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:47 pm

You didn’t answer the question! You are repeating the same things you said in your previous post. And you are jumping to conclusions about things I haven’t written.

Who is Fabio?!

Moataz says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:49 pm

I also didn’t say that “Women have no sexual drive”. I said that women respond to different stimuli than men.

Chicken Girl says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 3:14 pm

This is Fabio. He is a male model, commonly seen on the cover of romance novels, like this one. He is famous for his long, blond hair.

I also didn’t say that “Women have no sexual drive”. I said that women respond to different stimuli than men.

Meaning that women don’t find men visually attractive, right? Except that we do. Otherwise there would be no reason for Sherry Roseberry to put such a hunky piece of man-flesh on the cover of her novel. Women do, in fact, enjoy looking at men just as much as men enjoy looking at women.

So, why is it that a woman’s hair is so sexually provocative that it must be covered up, but Fabio’s isn’t?

JB says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 3:21 pm

Moataz,

I am curious: What would be the reaction of Muslims to a Muslim male who chose to wear a veil? What would it be considered to reflect about his character?

I am not asking this rhetorically, but rather asking because I am genuinely not sure of the answer. I was writing a response about gender norms when I realised that I cannot be sure about the nature of this institution if I don’t know exactly how it treats males whose expression of gender identity or clothing preferences differs from that of most men.

Moataz says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 3:46 pm

Hello JB,

You are going to be shocked!!! It is prefered for the Imam, the man who leads both men and women in Muslim prayers to cover his hair, during prayer. And some men cover their hair even when they are outside the mosque. Males from the Arabian Gulf countries cover their hair all the time with something called a Ghotrah. Just google an image for a king or a prince from these countries. Although the later example is not based on religion, but on tradition, but it still happens, and in a Muslim country.

So to answer your question: Yes, Muslim males sometimes cover their hair, while not in the form of the hijab (the hijab is also supposed to cover the neck of the female, both anterior and posterior aspects), but nonetheless they cover their hair. It’s not your average Muslim who does so (unless it’s traditional), but it’s there.

I hope that this answered your question, JB.

JB says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:06 pm

Moataz,

Thank you for your response, but I’m afraid that there was a miscommunication of my question. Yes, men may be encouraged to cover their hair using a more limited garment, but what about a garment that conceals as much as the hijab? Would that be seen as modest in a manner similar to a ghotrah, or would it be tantamount to cross dressing? Are there version of the ghotrah that are especially modest and approved of as a means for a man to show his special devotion?

Also, why is the neck more concealed for a woman? In my experience, women tend to focus on a man’s Adam’s apple much more than men care about a woman’s neck. (I agree that men may usually be visually stimulated in different ways than women, but the range of stimuli for a man is quite limited to a few very powerful parts while women are moderately stimulated by a great many.)

Moataz says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:33 pm

The Islamic code of dress for women is to wear clothes that are not transparent, tight or short and to cover her hair (starting from the hairline and moving with it to cover the ear), neck and upper part of the chest (or root of the neck, if you know a bit about anatomy). The final outcome is that all the woman’s body will be covered with the exception of her face and hands.

I have never heard of any man imitaing this dress code either in history or at the present. Some terrorists used the niqab (check my first post), especially in Saudi Arabia to move around without drawing any suspision.

I will answer your second question later.

Moataz says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:42 pm

I would also like to add that there is a saying by the Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) that “God curses men that imitate women and women that imitate men”.

Chicken Girl says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 4:48 pm

I would also like to add that there is a saying by the Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) that “God curses men that imitate women and women that imitate men”.

That’s all well and good, but you still haven’t explained why Fabio doesn’t need to cover his hair.

Moataz says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:01 pm

Hold on ChickenGirl. It will have to be a big article to illustrate it all. This will be tomorrow, God willing, as now I must sleep! It’s 5:00 pm where you live, but it’s 12:00 am of tomorrow where I live!

JB says:
December 2nd, 2006 at 5:20 pm

I would also like to add that there is a saying by the Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) that “God curses men that imitate women and women that imitate men”.

Ah, so now we’re getting into strict gender norms and discrimination against those whose gender identity and gender expression do not comply with those expectations.

Moataz says:
December 3rd, 2006 at 10:09 am

Yes, Islam, Christianity and Judism denounce all acts of sexual deviation.

You have heard about the Destruction of Sodom, haven’t you?

Chicken Girl says:
December 3rd, 2006 at 10:33 am

The men of Sodom were not gay. The verse suggesting they were is a mistranslation. Not that there’s anything wrong with homosexuality, incidentally.

Now, would you like to answer my question? Why is Fabio allowed to walk around with that gorgeous head of hair uncovered?

JB says:
December 3rd, 2006 at 10:44 am

Yes, Islam, Christianity and Judism [SIC] denounce all acts of sexual deviation.

You have heard about the Destruction of Sodom, haven’t you?

Intolerant forms of Islam, Christianity and Judaism may seek to persecute sexual and gender minorities, but reasonable people now recognise that it is unreasonable and immoral to continue historical discrimination.

The ultra-Orthodox community in Israel certainly threw a hissy fit about a recent gay pride parade in Jerusalem, and the world saw that it was not such a good thing when extremist Jews and extremist Muslims were actually coming together agree on something and act accordingly.

However, as with discrimination against women, the fact that something has generally been done a certain way says nothing about its morality. To claim otherwise is known in logic as the naturalistic fallacy.

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